Posts by THE GLADIATOR

140

Blame the designer and not the product: God and the lame Free Will argument

by Terry in

this is the one thing nobody is ever able to explain to me!.

if a genius designs something to operate in a specific way in order to obtain a precise outcome and it doesn't work---tell me again why we don't blame the genius designer/manufacturer??.

oh--that free will maguffin!.

THE GLADIATOR

Hi N.drew

After careful consideration I have chosen to reply to you and throw in my thread of homespun wisdom. It it is probably just an instinctive reaction :)

All mammals share many traits. A dog will usually choose when to cross a road. If it is excited and forgets to think, its lack of judgement can be fatal. Horses are also highly intelligent animals that are known to make choices.

Many decisions are instinctive survival reactions, but that also applies to humans. We can also make rash decisions and not look before we leap. Just like humans a trained animal shows a greater ability to make better choices.

140

Blame the designer and not the product: God and the lame Free Will argument

by Terry in

this is the one thing nobody is ever able to explain to me!.

if a genius designs something to operate in a specific way in order to obtain a precise outcome and it doesn't work---tell me again why we don't blame the genius designer/manufacturer??.

oh--that free will maguffin!.

THE GLADIATOR

This debate illustrates the difficulties that arise when we start from a wrong premise and then try to make it fit our viewpoint. If a being called God, planned and created all living things, then there are serious contradictions in the free will argument.

If we accept that humans have evolved, just alike all other living creatures, our world makes sense. All creatures continually make choices. Humans have developed consciousness to a level that allows us to make choises that go beyond just surviving.

Sometimes we exercise free will and sometimes we act out of necessity, making the most expedient and obvious choice. Sometimes we are able to exercise free will and sometimes we cannot. The results of those choices are seen throughout the world and form our history. I fail to see where a mythical God fits into such an obvious need driven pattern.

17

Another prayer answered

by StopTheTears in

jw
friends

i have been asking god for a new living arrangement, and he dropped the place in my being.

it's pending and i will update.

i am still praying and thanking him.. .

THE GLADIATOR

This highlights the problem with having only one god.

I have over 300 gods and this is reflected in th e generous deposits to my bank account.

23

How to stump the atheists

by StopTheTears in

jw
friends

ask an atheist if he or she believes in the existence of aliens?

if they answer, "no," then ask them how do they know that?

the truth is that no atheist can reasonably deny the existence of alien life.

THE GLADIATOR

StopTheTears

I can accept that God is an alien.

Can you convince me that he is my father.

182

It makes no sense whatsoever that a" CREATOR" would only communicate with a minority of the population then put the onus on them to convey this life saving message to the WHOLE wide world

by smiddy in

i now find it idiotic that i could ever beleive the bible to be the inspired word of god.....,throughout the bible "god"has only dealt with a few of his favoured spokespersons to deliver his messages to a minority populace.individuals at first,..... then, patriarchs,nomads,a small nation,ignoring all other nations that had sprung up.......,abandoning his chosen nation,sending his "son"to a small nation, only giving them his pearls of wisdom,much of what was not even recorded for prosperity and remember he never wrote a word,it was left up to other imperfect humans to record what he was supposed to have said,just a smidgen......,again ignoring the bulk of humankind keeping them in ignorance of his plan for universal salvation,leaving it all up to imperfect humans to spread this message of salvation, whom he has already condemned for their sinfullness and disobedience.i just find it so unbeleivable.

in the 6000 years of recorded history only a fraction of the earths population,maybe less than a third have ever heard of the god of the bible, or his so called plan to redeem humankind ,thats millions and millions of people.

( india,arabic,afghanistan,pakistan etc.etc.).

THE GLADIATOR

Tammy, Thanks for taking the time to analyze my ramblings.

As for Adam and Eve... they are not what is important. What I am to do, how I am to act and treat my fellow man, who I am to look for to know these things and also for truth to know and to help others with... these things are important.

This is your personal philosophy and has a lot to do with your basic nature. The humanistic approach is not a religion but a philosophy of kindness towards others and working for the greater good - the opposite of selfishness. You attribute your approach to living, to Jesus. As I have said before, you should take the credit for yourself - but that would spoil all the fun.

(By the way regarding another thread. In the UK Rumbled = found out)

I am off out for the evening soon - the next time the clocks strike in the UK it will be 7pm.

Be seeing you

Trevor

6

who has taken blood particles

by Joey Jo-Jo in

with the conscience decision to take particles, i have know recent cases of blood not being taken, i wouldn't really know if that wastheir decision or that simply the hospital only has whole blood.

i would like to know if blood particles is an option in the real world..

THE GLADIATOR

As some ultra spiritual Jehovah's Witnesses are now prepared to accept blood fractions, are they also prepared to donate blood?

After all their own bible record the words of Jesus in relation to healing sick people; 'you received free, give free.' (Matthew 10:8)

182

It makes no sense whatsoever that a" CREATOR" would only communicate with a minority of the population then put the onus on them to convey this life saving message to the WHOLE wide world

by smiddy in

i now find it idiotic that i could ever beleive the bible to be the inspired word of god.....,throughout the bible "god"has only dealt with a few of his favoured spokespersons to deliver his messages to a minority populace.individuals at first,..... then, patriarchs,nomads,a small nation,ignoring all other nations that had sprung up.......,abandoning his chosen nation,sending his "son"to a small nation, only giving them his pearls of wisdom,much of what was not even recorded for prosperity and remember he never wrote a word,it was left up to other imperfect humans to record what he was supposed to have said,just a smidgen......,again ignoring the bulk of humankind keeping them in ignorance of his plan for universal salvation,leaving it all up to imperfect humans to spread this message of salvation, whom he has already condemned for their sinfullness and disobedience.i just find it so unbeleivable.

in the 6000 years of recorded history only a fraction of the earths population,maybe less than a third have ever heard of the god of the bible, or his so called plan to redeem humankind ,thats millions and millions of people.

( india,arabic,afghanistan,pakistan etc.etc.).

THE GLADIATOR

"I'm with Nancy ... I didn't see a question either."

The opening statement is a provocative statement designed to illicit a response. It has received many replies. I am impressed that N.drew has transformed herself into an English teacher. Full marks for effort.

"But in truth, do you know what 'base' is the correct base?"

No, I have no base on which to develop a faith. The Bible does not make sense and Jesus has yet to talk to me. That’s rather rude, considering how many years of my life I spent talking to him and trying to serve his father. So I remain without a faith. However, if I were a Christian, claming to have direct communication with Jesus, I would at the very least expect him to tell me whether of not Adam & Eve existed.

If they are just allegorical people and the Eden project is just ‘a story’ or fable, then I would have to assume that the story of Jesus is also a fable and that Jesus is an allegorical figure; just a myth.

The question that we are left asking is; Did Jesus come to earth and sacrifice himself to redeem fallen man or is the whole Eden story including Adam & Eve, allegorical, fictitious? If I were in direct communication with Jesus I would ask him for a straight answer before I wasted one more moment of my mortal life playing a game of hide and seek.

If Jesus could not directly answer that one simple, yet fundamental question regarding his fathers plan for me, I would realize that he is not listening to me and I had imagined he was speaking to me and declare myself an agnostic until further notice.

Come to think of it that is exactly what did happen to me. That is why I left Jehovah's Witnesses, gave up on Christianity and became a gladiator - well we all have our delusions.

May your gods go with you Tammy.

182

It makes no sense whatsoever that a" CREATOR" would only communicate with a minority of the population then put the onus on them to convey this life saving message to the WHOLE wide world

by smiddy in

i now find it idiotic that i could ever beleive the bible to be the inspired word of god.....,throughout the bible "god"has only dealt with a few of his favoured spokespersons to deliver his messages to a minority populace.individuals at first,..... then, patriarchs,nomads,a small nation,ignoring all other nations that had sprung up.......,abandoning his chosen nation,sending his "son"to a small nation, only giving them his pearls of wisdom,much of what was not even recorded for prosperity and remember he never wrote a word,it was left up to other imperfect humans to record what he was supposed to have said,just a smidgen......,again ignoring the bulk of humankind keeping them in ignorance of his plan for universal salvation,leaving it all up to imperfect humans to spread this message of salvation, whom he has already condemned for their sinfullness and disobedience.i just find it so unbeleivable.

in the 6000 years of recorded history only a fraction of the earths population,maybe less than a third have ever heard of the god of the bible, or his so called plan to redeem humankind ,thats millions and millions of people.

( india,arabic,afghanistan,pakistan etc.etc.).

THE GLADIATOR

tec “I don't think I ever said what I believe about Adam and Eve. In truth, I am not sure. I have agreed that these COULD be allegorical people, or literal people, or a combination of the two (everyone/thing in that story represents something else, or some such version), or something I don't know about.”

That just about covers all bases and leaves room for an entirely different game - evolution or even atheism perhaps? At this rate, God could simply be a mistranslation for Dog that wandered around Eden barking at naked people, literally, allegorically, or a combination of the two.

I have tried to follow this debate but am unable to find a single comment that actually answers the question posed by the opening question; hence my reluctance to fully engage in serious debate - my apologies for interrupting. Please carry on.

51

Theists - Please Explain This.......

by AK - Jeff in

and please don't do so with the standard "i don't know the answer - but there surely must be one.

" or some other lame attempt to defend god/bible without a real explanation.. here goes:.

i find it incredibly interesting how hard the mind works to prevent rational thought when it suits it's purpose.

THE GLADIATOR

tec " No one is totally rational, imo."

This is true and no one really wants to be totally rational and live entirely without illusion. If we did that we would never again get engrossed in a fictional book or film. In order to enjoy life we sometimes have to suspend our rationality and go with the flow. To accept other people that we are close to, we have to embrace their essence and accept their quirky thinking. People do this for me but I pretend not to notice.

182

It makes no sense whatsoever that a" CREATOR" would only communicate with a minority of the population then put the onus on them to convey this life saving message to the WHOLE wide world

by smiddy in

i now find it idiotic that i could ever beleive the bible to be the inspired word of god.....,throughout the bible "god"has only dealt with a few of his favoured spokespersons to deliver his messages to a minority populace.individuals at first,..... then, patriarchs,nomads,a small nation,ignoring all other nations that had sprung up.......,abandoning his chosen nation,sending his "son"to a small nation, only giving them his pearls of wisdom,much of what was not even recorded for prosperity and remember he never wrote a word,it was left up to other imperfect humans to record what he was supposed to have said,just a smidgen......,again ignoring the bulk of humankind keeping them in ignorance of his plan for universal salvation,leaving it all up to imperfect humans to spread this message of salvation, whom he has already condemned for their sinfullness and disobedience.i just find it so unbeleivable.

in the 6000 years of recorded history only a fraction of the earths population,maybe less than a third have ever heard of the god of the bible, or his so called plan to redeem humankind ,thats millions and millions of people.

( india,arabic,afghanistan,pakistan etc.etc.).

THE GLADIATOR

tec "But too many people would rather BE served, and so they don't listen."

I think I have been rumbled.